dilipcr
06-11 10:08 PM
Dilip,i read your old post from 2003, indeed a roller coaster ride...remember good KARMA, you had tons of it man!!
I am not a strong believer in Karma as Karma is something whose existence is determined based on the aftermath of success we achieve in our trials and tribulations. I hope that you people appreciate my opinion that geniuine people need not worry abt GC timelines. It will happen. I dont believe in the policy of these L1s getting GCs because most of them, if not all, do not fall under the superior skillsets category. In addition, they unabashedly jump the queue in terms of GC, flout rules and end up lowering the wages of the existing people. This was also the case back then in 2001.
Back then there was a misplaced sense of security amongst these people working for these outsourcing companies that lower salaries meant guaranteed job security. Most of them never had the confidence in their own skills to venture out on their own. They preferred the tutelage and security of their firms. Their skillsets were run of the mill and so they continued diluting the IT wages. It is the same scenario repeating today wherein these type of guys are under the L1 visa. An insignificant minority among these may be talented but it is not worth the time spending to identify these cases. In my opinion, there is no need to feel sympathetic towards the people from these companies. I may seem to sound harsh here but if you think through my opinions you would realize that my opinions are in the best interests of preventing wage destruction for those working directly for companies n a H1B.
I am not a strong believer in Karma as Karma is something whose existence is determined based on the aftermath of success we achieve in our trials and tribulations. I hope that you people appreciate my opinion that geniuine people need not worry abt GC timelines. It will happen. I dont believe in the policy of these L1s getting GCs because most of them, if not all, do not fall under the superior skillsets category. In addition, they unabashedly jump the queue in terms of GC, flout rules and end up lowering the wages of the existing people. This was also the case back then in 2001.
Back then there was a misplaced sense of security amongst these people working for these outsourcing companies that lower salaries meant guaranteed job security. Most of them never had the confidence in their own skills to venture out on their own. They preferred the tutelage and security of their firms. Their skillsets were run of the mill and so they continued diluting the IT wages. It is the same scenario repeating today wherein these type of guys are under the L1 visa. An insignificant minority among these may be talented but it is not worth the time spending to identify these cases. In my opinion, there is no need to feel sympathetic towards the people from these companies. I may seem to sound harsh here but if you think through my opinions you would realize that my opinions are in the best interests of preventing wage destruction for those working directly for companies n a H1B.
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chanduv23
02-14 12:34 PM
Watch and see how fast the Michigan government will start issuing DL to H1B holders and to those who has pending I-485.
http://www.aclumich.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=567
https://www.aclumich.org/pdf/licensecomplaint.pdf
If you believe in it, stay put - gather support. Work towards legal opinion. Not sure if IV core endorses it, but use the forum to get support.
Those who are interested must consider forming a mailing list and create a group.
Many people just take the poll, and run away if approached. Let everyone participate wholeheartedly.
IV wants all members to help in the Admin fix - "Letter to the President" campaign and it is very essential we follow peaceful methods. Please help make this campaign successful.
http://www.aclumich.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=567
https://www.aclumich.org/pdf/licensecomplaint.pdf
If you believe in it, stay put - gather support. Work towards legal opinion. Not sure if IV core endorses it, but use the forum to get support.
Those who are interested must consider forming a mailing list and create a group.
Many people just take the poll, and run away if approached. Let everyone participate wholeheartedly.
IV wants all members to help in the Admin fix - "Letter to the President" campaign and it is very essential we follow peaceful methods. Please help make this campaign successful.
django.stone
07-24 09:16 PM
If this is indeed true, isn't it unfair to issue visas to Feb 2006 dates at a Consulate while people with 2005 dates are waiting for AOS. Can this be challenged in court?
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jaithran
07-17 12:25 PM
Too many guesses!!! I am a silent watcher here for last 1 or 2 yrs and all your calculations & guesses were proved wrong in the past. Some guys are too positive that they always guess & give some calcuations which seems like you are going to get your GC in 6 months..some are very negative that they always keep crying and always guess & give some calculation which seems like you will only get your GC in 2025. lol to be frank its really funny to see your guesses & calculations. BTW this is not to offend anyone her. Take it easy guys.:D
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abhijitp
02-13 01:25 AM
I am not saying "C" nor am I saying "July 2007 VB". I am talking about "June 2007 VB". It is just a matter of time when we can see the VB back to June 2007 figure again.
I can assure you that I have done my part without telling anyone. I am a silent doer.
But even that is not a possibility this year, IMHO.
Thanks for your efforts!
I can assure you that I have done my part without telling anyone. I am a silent doer.
But even that is not a possibility this year, IMHO.
Thanks for your efforts!
saimrathi
07-10 11:25 AM
Have a great time eh!!
Dear Friends, I had it... I am moving to Canada in the next 2 months to work for guess who? Microsoft. Came to USA in 1997 for my masters, worked at Legato, Documentum and Opentext. Had to restart my GC twrice, once as the company laid me off and next for career progression. GC is still years years away. Interviewed with MSFT last month and got an offer to work in their Enterprise Collaboration team. MSFT looked at the visa mess I was in and offered me to work in Vancouver. I get my Canadian GC in 6 months and my wife can work from day one. I am abandoning my US dream for good;guess I would be satisfied with touching my 4 year old son's American passport.
I worked for a canadian company in US and now would be working for a US company in Canada. This is globalization. True Globalization. Any for those whiners belonging to IEEE and its propoganda machine, I would like to mention that I drew salries which were above way above the norm. I am sure I would be drawing more than 2 of his programmers combined. Ron- ask your folks to learn to compete and update their skills. They probably studied studied 'history of mathematics' as a math subject in high school instead of calculus. They were happy that they had the coolest Nintendo games while many like me were burning the midnight old figuring out data structures at Berkeley.
I hope Berney Sanders and his club of the CIR days are hearing the developments. Berney, fix the broken education system for job protection rather than building fences to prevent legal workers to come to this gifted country. More companies will leave for nearshore if the mess continues. Fix the system by closing the H1B loopholes that a small percentage of companies are exploiting. Don't bad mouth the H1B system which has given you so much talent that you could have never groomed, the talented individuals who have contributed to the society, social security system and what not. Patch the holes in the fence, do not erect a higher fence for which people need to pay $ 5000 to cross. And by the way if you have the inclination and the time- fix the broken LEGAL High Skilled immigration system.
Dear Friends, I had it... I am moving to Canada in the next 2 months to work for guess who? Microsoft. Came to USA in 1997 for my masters, worked at Legato, Documentum and Opentext. Had to restart my GC twrice, once as the company laid me off and next for career progression. GC is still years years away. Interviewed with MSFT last month and got an offer to work in their Enterprise Collaboration team. MSFT looked at the visa mess I was in and offered me to work in Vancouver. I get my Canadian GC in 6 months and my wife can work from day one. I am abandoning my US dream for good;guess I would be satisfied with touching my 4 year old son's American passport.
I worked for a canadian company in US and now would be working for a US company in Canada. This is globalization. True Globalization. Any for those whiners belonging to IEEE and its propoganda machine, I would like to mention that I drew salries which were above way above the norm. I am sure I would be drawing more than 2 of his programmers combined. Ron- ask your folks to learn to compete and update their skills. They probably studied studied 'history of mathematics' as a math subject in high school instead of calculus. They were happy that they had the coolest Nintendo games while many like me were burning the midnight old figuring out data structures at Berkeley.
I hope Berney Sanders and his club of the CIR days are hearing the developments. Berney, fix the broken education system for job protection rather than building fences to prevent legal workers to come to this gifted country. More companies will leave for nearshore if the mess continues. Fix the system by closing the H1B loopholes that a small percentage of companies are exploiting. Don't bad mouth the H1B system which has given you so much talent that you could have never groomed, the talented individuals who have contributed to the society, social security system and what not. Patch the holes in the fence, do not erect a higher fence for which people need to pay $ 5000 to cross. And by the way if you have the inclination and the time- fix the broken LEGAL High Skilled immigration system.
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EkAurAaya
07-10 11:41 AM
Dude you just gave me goose bumps! You should forward your heart felt note to media outlets!
I sincerely wish you the best! God Bless! Good luck with everything...
At least you wont have to worry about "visa-status" "legal/illegal" "H1b" "H4" Labor Cert" i140" i485" EAD" AP"... F$#% that! :D
I sincerely wish you the best! God Bless! Good luck with everything...
At least you wont have to worry about "visa-status" "legal/illegal" "H1b" "H4" Labor Cert" i140" i485" EAD" AP"... F$#% that! :D
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diptam
07-04 12:07 AM
Agreed !!
These days i'm driving back from work instead of taking the Train/subway because my client location changed and i built this habit of listening to
Talk radio by guys like Howie Carr , Michael Savage etc.. ( WRKO 680 at Boston) and they really influence Public decision....
They were beating the s*** out of Bush, Ted kennedy because of CIR ( atleast verbally ) and calls after calls were coming from local american Public...
But our story may not be very interesting for Locals - so talk radio probably won't take it up as a Topic ???
Yeah seriously. Do you know that a lot of talk shows and their hosts have played a significant role in pulling CIR down? If they can do it, we can do it too. Go ahead and digg the stories
These days i'm driving back from work instead of taking the Train/subway because my client location changed and i built this habit of listening to
Talk radio by guys like Howie Carr , Michael Savage etc.. ( WRKO 680 at Boston) and they really influence Public decision....
They were beating the s*** out of Bush, Ted kennedy because of CIR ( atleast verbally ) and calls after calls were coming from local american Public...
But our story may not be very interesting for Locals - so talk radio probably won't take it up as a Topic ???
Yeah seriously. Do you know that a lot of talk shows and their hosts have played a significant role in pulling CIR down? If they can do it, we can do it too. Go ahead and digg the stories
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dvb123
02-15 10:48 AM
my friend you really need to dig deeper into stuff...most things are more than meets the eye. courts are very reluctant to strike down laws. the supreme court will strike down a federal law ONLY if it's against the constitution itself...ie there has to be a fundamental problem. this is true both in the US and in India.
the fact that a law inconveniences people is just not enough ground.
Yup Paskal I have a dug a little deeper. Although this case is about DV visa it is very similar to our Visa recatpure situation.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:yJNFLn-AtcsJ:vls.law.vill.edu/Locator/3d/Jan2004/031075p.pdf+court+order+immigrant+visa+number&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=in
the fact that a law inconveniences people is just not enough ground.
Yup Paskal I have a dug a little deeper. Although this case is about DV visa it is very similar to our Visa recatpure situation.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:yJNFLn-AtcsJ:vls.law.vill.edu/Locator/3d/Jan2004/031075p.pdf+court+order+immigrant+visa+number&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=in
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msp1976
02-13 02:50 PM
I don't think so. 7% limit has been there for a very long time. Unused visas from prior years for ac21 purposes were still subject to 7% in current year. The 7% rule was unchanged.
It seems that you think that the unused visas from prior year were not subject to 7%. There is nothing of the sort that allows this.
Refer to this text.....
http://www.fourmilab.ch/uscode/8usc/www/t8-12-II-I-1152.html#_a_
TITLE 8, CHAPTER 12, SUBCHAPTER II, Part I, Sec. 1152.
Look at paragraph a(5)
(5) Rules for employment-based immigrants
(A) Employment-based immigrants not subject to per country
limitation if additional visas available
If the total number of visas available under paragraph (1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of section 1153(b) of this title for a calendar quarter exceeds the number of qualified immigrants who may otherwise be issued such visas, the visas made available under that paragraph shall be issued without regard to the numerical limitation under paragraph (2) of this subsection during the remainder of the calendar quarter.
(B) Limiting fall across for certain countries subject to
subsection (e) of this section
In the case of a foreign state or dependent area to which subsection (e) of this section applies, if the total number of visas issued under section 1153(b) of this title exceeds the maximum number of visas that may be made available to immigrants of the state or area under section 1153(b) of this title consistent with subsection (e) of this section (determined without regard to this paragraph), in applying subsection (e) of this section all visas shall be deemed to have been required for the classes of aliens specified in section 1153(b) of this title.
This is the section that allows for the 7% cap to be violated in case additional visas are available.................
This is the one many anti immigrant people tried to get removed again and again......
USCIS did not do anything wrong in 2005 nor in 2006.....By allocating additional visas to India/China USCIS did not do anything wrong...You can sue them ....USCIS has good grounds to defend their position.....You would not get anywhere...
It seems that you think that the unused visas from prior year were not subject to 7%. There is nothing of the sort that allows this.
Refer to this text.....
http://www.fourmilab.ch/uscode/8usc/www/t8-12-II-I-1152.html#_a_
TITLE 8, CHAPTER 12, SUBCHAPTER II, Part I, Sec. 1152.
Look at paragraph a(5)
(5) Rules for employment-based immigrants
(A) Employment-based immigrants not subject to per country
limitation if additional visas available
If the total number of visas available under paragraph (1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of section 1153(b) of this title for a calendar quarter exceeds the number of qualified immigrants who may otherwise be issued such visas, the visas made available under that paragraph shall be issued without regard to the numerical limitation under paragraph (2) of this subsection during the remainder of the calendar quarter.
(B) Limiting fall across for certain countries subject to
subsection (e) of this section
In the case of a foreign state or dependent area to which subsection (e) of this section applies, if the total number of visas issued under section 1153(b) of this title exceeds the maximum number of visas that may be made available to immigrants of the state or area under section 1153(b) of this title consistent with subsection (e) of this section (determined without regard to this paragraph), in applying subsection (e) of this section all visas shall be deemed to have been required for the classes of aliens specified in section 1153(b) of this title.
This is the section that allows for the 7% cap to be violated in case additional visas are available.................
This is the one many anti immigrant people tried to get removed again and again......
USCIS did not do anything wrong in 2005 nor in 2006.....By allocating additional visas to India/China USCIS did not do anything wrong...You can sue them ....USCIS has good grounds to defend their position.....You would not get anywhere...
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Googler
02-18 03:17 PM
Neither of us are lawyers and I wouldn't even bother reading what you wrote. All I can say is, why don't you ask your immigration lawyer about this Class Action. Let's see what he says.
This is great -- you won't consider facts and evidence, including the fact that judges themselves are recommending class action in similar cases! Forget about considering, you won't even read a post with a different pov... (makes me wonder why you bother with the forum if even reading a post is too much work.)
My own attorney, as a matter of fact, thinks that a class action makes sense in this instance.
As lazycis points out, his attorney didn't want him to even file an individual WOM, and it turned out his attorney was absolutely wrong. The mass of evidence in WOM cases and the current Mocanu decision shows that lazycis's attorney (and other let us not disturb/question the status quo attorneys) were wrong. I should remind people again that most of our attorneys are not litigators, they are paper filers -- this dichotomy is true in most other practice areas of the law (eg: antitrust) as well.
The reason I care about this is -- if people/attorneys make up their minds without considering the facts/legal precedents, then they will not spot and/or work to figure out the legal arguments that will win the day -- the legal arguments eventually used in the WOM cases did not sprout out on day one, it was an iterative process.
This is great -- you won't consider facts and evidence, including the fact that judges themselves are recommending class action in similar cases! Forget about considering, you won't even read a post with a different pov... (makes me wonder why you bother with the forum if even reading a post is too much work.)
My own attorney, as a matter of fact, thinks that a class action makes sense in this instance.
As lazycis points out, his attorney didn't want him to even file an individual WOM, and it turned out his attorney was absolutely wrong. The mass of evidence in WOM cases and the current Mocanu decision shows that lazycis's attorney (and other let us not disturb/question the status quo attorneys) were wrong. I should remind people again that most of our attorneys are not litigators, they are paper filers -- this dichotomy is true in most other practice areas of the law (eg: antitrust) as well.
The reason I care about this is -- if people/attorneys make up their minds without considering the facts/legal precedents, then they will not spot and/or work to figure out the legal arguments that will win the day -- the legal arguments eventually used in the WOM cases did not sprout out on day one, it was an iterative process.
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TeddyKoochu
09-15 06:26 PM
Friends what are the predictions for the coming bulletins (Maybe it�s too early). My 2 cents, Iam assuming quarterly spillover to happen in December, believe that all residual 2003 / 2004 folks will get approval in the next 2 months (I hope Iam not being too optimistic).
Nov VB - 01-MAR-2005
Dec VB - 01-JUN-2005
If we stay on stable ground i.e. the dates don't go back (Its better they move slowly then go back, seeing the dates go back is the most painful thing) then we can visualize the spillover (this is our only lifeline) better.
Nov VB - 01-MAR-2005
Dec VB - 01-JUN-2005
If we stay on stable ground i.e. the dates don't go back (Its better they move slowly then go back, seeing the dates go back is the most painful thing) then we can visualize the spillover (this is our only lifeline) better.
more...
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AllVNeedGcPc
07-03 11:11 AM
Deleted personal info as "Question was never answered"
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sk2006
08-16 12:13 PM
To all the wannabe americans and GC aspirants, dont forget where you came from. You are nothing but 21st century cheap labor. Just do the right thing!
So what has that to do with supporting SRK here?
He is saying he is hurt and he even said there were fans calling him and still the officers did not understand he is SharRukh Khan. Now that is funny.
That sounds like if some xyz is detained and people start calling him by his name POE officers should understand who he is!
So what has that to do with supporting SRK here?
He is saying he is hurt and he even said there were fans calling him and still the officers did not understand he is SharRukh Khan. Now that is funny.
That sounds like if some xyz is detained and people start calling him by his name POE officers should understand who he is!
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snathan
01-24 05:31 PM
If you think Memo is illegal why can't you file a lawsuit. That should be right way. But I did not see any suggestion from any lawyer. But when when July 2007 issue cropped most lawyers rushed to file lawsuit. Now no one even suggesting lawsuit except some members in IV. Either most are not interested or they think no legal basis to contest memo
I have been observing JoeF's posts from different threads. I can say for sure he doesn't know what he is talking about. He is just another sadistic person like snram4 on this forum.
For instance JoeF says "he saw it coming" in reference to this memo. But the fact is, this memo is ILLEGAL. It has no legal base. Please refer to Murthy's latest newsletter. However members on murthy forum as well as you spicy_guy, thinks that JoeF is "knowledgeable". I am surprised to see that people who are here in this country for long believes all the BS that JoeF says.
I am not sure if this snram4 is sadist or outright idiot. When this thread started there were couple of people supporting this memo. Once they understood no longer they are supporting. Snram4 is the only guy still supporting and talking all nonsense.
snram4...whatever may be the case whether people are going for law suit or not, You are not going to add any value. Why dont you simply go away rather than talking all nonsense and wasting everyone's time. No one is bothering you or stupid comments. So many people asked you to go away...why dont you consider that for GOD shake.
I have been observing JoeF's posts from different threads. I can say for sure he doesn't know what he is talking about. He is just another sadistic person like snram4 on this forum.
For instance JoeF says "he saw it coming" in reference to this memo. But the fact is, this memo is ILLEGAL. It has no legal base. Please refer to Murthy's latest newsletter. However members on murthy forum as well as you spicy_guy, thinks that JoeF is "knowledgeable". I am surprised to see that people who are here in this country for long believes all the BS that JoeF says.
I am not sure if this snram4 is sadist or outright idiot. When this thread started there were couple of people supporting this memo. Once they understood no longer they are supporting. Snram4 is the only guy still supporting and talking all nonsense.
snram4...whatever may be the case whether people are going for law suit or not, You are not going to add any value. Why dont you simply go away rather than talking all nonsense and wasting everyone's time. No one is bothering you or stupid comments. So many people asked you to go away...why dont you consider that for GOD shake.
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ash27
04-02 11:47 PM
Sk2006, you seem to have an issue. What is your problem if other people want to share their thoughts through this collaboration platform. I told u earlier that if u r not interested, don't go through this thread. If u are sincere, then u will not reply kiddishly and will act sensibly.... Grow up dude....
more...
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thomachan72
03-27 11:55 AM
Election in India is approaching fast. Who will be next prime minister of India.
(This is better than doing predictions for visa bulletins :)).
You really think so?? The next PMs name is not even on your poll lists!!
India and Russia have set examples to the rest of the world. How? well...
Russia- by showing how communism can be at its worst
India- by happily showing how democracy can be at its... you guessed it, "worst"
Dont agree?? True Democracy, implies "for the people and by the people", right?
well in India its a tiny bit different...."For the thugs and by the thugs" Now the word thugs vary in meaning depending upon the citizen affected... for some it might simply mean "currupt" for others "looters", for some others "dishonest" and for a unfortunate majority it goes to the extent of "murderers".
Now.....still interested in wasting time with the projections for Indian PM??
(This is better than doing predictions for visa bulletins :)).
You really think so?? The next PMs name is not even on your poll lists!!
India and Russia have set examples to the rest of the world. How? well...
Russia- by showing how communism can be at its worst
India- by happily showing how democracy can be at its... you guessed it, "worst"
Dont agree?? True Democracy, implies "for the people and by the people", right?
well in India its a tiny bit different...."For the thugs and by the thugs" Now the word thugs vary in meaning depending upon the citizen affected... for some it might simply mean "currupt" for others "looters", for some others "dishonest" and for a unfortunate majority it goes to the extent of "murderers".
Now.....still interested in wasting time with the projections for Indian PM??
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Legal
07-24 07:33 PM
http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5456&page=8
#78 07-07 12:43 PM
guchi472000 guchi472000 is offline
Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13
Re: Visa Bulletin answers and other isssues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ron.
Any predictions for Aug-08 visa bulletine.
Thanks.
guchi472000
View Public Profile
Find all posts by guchi472000
#79 07-07 01:30 PM
Re: Visa Bulletin answers and other isssues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suspect there won't be much change from the July bulletin.
__________________
Ron Gotcher Ron Gotcher is offline
Attorney at Law Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 6,767
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#78 07-07 12:43 PM
guchi472000 guchi472000 is offline
Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 13
Re: Visa Bulletin answers and other isssues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ron.
Any predictions for Aug-08 visa bulletine.
Thanks.
guchi472000
View Public Profile
Find all posts by guchi472000
#79 07-07 01:30 PM
Re: Visa Bulletin answers and other isssues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suspect there won't be much change from the July bulletin.
__________________
Ron Gotcher Ron Gotcher is offline
Attorney at Law Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 6,767
Blog Entries: 11
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garybanz
02-15 10:32 AM
Cyrus Mehta would be a very good attorney to consult on this matter, check out http://www.cyrusmehta.com/ for his details.
I had contacted him earlier about the possibility of a class action against per country limits, he gave me a free consultation and basically told me why i did not have a case.
I had contacted him earlier about the possibility of a class action against per country limits, he gave me a free consultation and basically told me why i did not have a case.
amsgc
07-26 04:48 PM
From what I remember, Ron Hira had done the math and found that only 0.03% of those H-1B visa applicants get sponsored for the GC by the Indian Offshore companies.
But, we still have a tremendous backlog in 2004, plus labor subs, plus EB3 moving over to EB2. According to , there are still hundreds of people waiting with PD before June 2004.
Also out of the 65K H1 visas that were available since 2003, most of the Visas were consumed by the Big Indian companies.
Remember when Congress sent letters to the Big Indian companies, there was data related to how many companies applied for how many Visas.
AFAIK it was in the range of 25k-35k per year combined by all these companies that filed H1s .
One thing to note is, they do not sponsor GCs for all the applicants.They do them very rarely for the people who are in their 5th to 6th year of H1.Could be in the range of Hundereds and not thousands comapred to the people count they have in US.
But, we still have a tremendous backlog in 2004, plus labor subs, plus EB3 moving over to EB2. According to , there are still hundreds of people waiting with PD before June 2004.
Also out of the 65K H1 visas that were available since 2003, most of the Visas were consumed by the Big Indian companies.
Remember when Congress sent letters to the Big Indian companies, there was data related to how many companies applied for how many Visas.
AFAIK it was in the range of 25k-35k per year combined by all these companies that filed H1s .
One thing to note is, they do not sponsor GCs for all the applicants.They do them very rarely for the people who are in their 5th to 6th year of H1.Could be in the range of Hundereds and not thousands comapred to the people count they have in US.
apt29
09-04 03:15 PM
Let us not fight and belittle ourselves in the community. Just think how people joke about Jayalalitha and Karunanidhi (no pun intended). The same could happen to us also. Atleast keep quiet if not discussing the Immigration issues. Politicians come and go, but people stay forever. Fighting about a local politician in international website like IV will tarnish our image.
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