tikka
07-03 11:19 PM
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin
http://digg.com/politics/U_S_Withdraws_Offer_of_60_000_Job_Based_Visas_Ange ring_Immigration_Lawyer/who
IF WE GET 100 digs on the ny times it will stay on most popular for a while.
Also, you can DIGG the comments!!
http://digg.com/politics/U_S_Withdraws_Offer_of_60_000_Job_Based_Visas_Ange ring_Immigration_Lawyer/who
IF WE GET 100 digs on the ny times it will stay on most popular for a while.
Also, you can DIGG the comments!!
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ItIsNotFunny
03-26 01:19 PM
......because you are using labor substitution.
At this time nobody can do anything legally against people who are using labor substitution and employers who are secretly selling labor substitution.
This substitution is increasing backlogs, is unfair to people waiting in line, encourages employer exploitation since they use it as an incentive to woo employees and then exploit them, 'selling' is illegal but one must complain against the employer and the employee for DOL to act.
Lawyers are part of this scam. I have read in some posts that even AILA opposed when labor substitution was being ended. It is a lost business opportunity for their lawyer members!!
I have pointed several labor substitution members on the forums in the past. some of them were never found on the forum since they feared being caught. They must have changed their ID or ran away. So until a law is passed for banning it, such 'trade' that hurts our interests will continue.
Good that you guys are only buying labor certifications. There is no 'legal' process to buy greencards directly from employers yet!!
I am not using, but I still agree that given opportunity you should use it.
At this time nobody can do anything legally against people who are using labor substitution and employers who are secretly selling labor substitution.
This substitution is increasing backlogs, is unfair to people waiting in line, encourages employer exploitation since they use it as an incentive to woo employees and then exploit them, 'selling' is illegal but one must complain against the employer and the employee for DOL to act.
Lawyers are part of this scam. I have read in some posts that even AILA opposed when labor substitution was being ended. It is a lost business opportunity for their lawyer members!!
I have pointed several labor substitution members on the forums in the past. some of them were never found on the forum since they feared being caught. They must have changed their ID or ran away. So until a law is passed for banning it, such 'trade' that hurts our interests will continue.
Good that you guys are only buying labor certifications. There is no 'legal' process to buy greencards directly from employers yet!!
I am not using, but I still agree that given opportunity you should use it.
zbd
10-18 11:36 PM
I'm not looking for a citizenship but I gotto live here and almost getting Canada PR. If this is the case, anyway I'll lose the PR 5 years later since I couldn't stand there 2 years long in 5 years.
Please advise.
Please advise.
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alisa
06-27 09:58 PM
Ever since the dates got current, it has been more stressful than the time when dates were retrogressed and almost makes me miss the retrogression days when I didnt have to depend on the lawyers for my career.
I agree. Its just one headache after another.
But why July 2nd?
If they really want to, they can 'U' the entire July.
There is a saying in Urdu. Translated it says that its the prerogative of the lion to lay eggs, or bear cubs, since he is the King of the Jungle.
USCIS is the king of the jungle here.
But if they do this, this will be cruelest joke on thousands of people.
I agree. Its just one headache after another.
But why July 2nd?
If they really want to, they can 'U' the entire July.
There is a saying in Urdu. Translated it says that its the prerogative of the lion to lay eggs, or bear cubs, since he is the King of the Jungle.
USCIS is the king of the jungle here.
But if they do this, this will be cruelest joke on thousands of people.
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desi3933
06-16 04:33 PM
Where did you get that 80k number? You think 80k is good salary for that job, someone else may say 65k, I may say 90k. The salary, among other things, is determined by market forces. If you can't find enough people with xyz then company will be forced to offer more.
As long as there are people who are ready to work on salary 52k (example), employer will not pay 70k. As long as employer is following all the legal requirements, no one can dictate salary for the job.
I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market. No well meaning employer will undercut to save a few pennies at the risk of losing out on quality.
What if the market pay scales are distorted through pervasive fraud ? If you look at it from an employer's view, it gets murkier. Believe it or not, low cost always signal lower quality. Trust me this is marketing 101. Google low cost and the perceptive signals. It is truly tough for the employer to trust the low cost employee's skillset.
Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud. Like other industries such as manufacturing/agriculture etc, IT wages are destined to decline but not at this rate. The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living. So per your argument, yes the end employer is following the rules by employing people from the outsourcing company because the employer does not know or looks the other way of the outsourcing company committing pervasive fraud. Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too. It was not based on any scientific or statistical evidence.
>> I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market.
I am glad we are on the same page on this. It is employer who decides how much to pay. Employee decides whether to take the offer or not. Simple.
>> Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud.
Well, you can report the fraudulent activity. If one is wronged, he/she has option of legal route and claiming punitive damages.
>> The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living.
If my employer pays me less salary, I have option to move to another job. Just like my employer has option to fire me and replace with another qualified worker. Again, unless otherwise, I assume all actions are legal. I don't know about you, but when I came to USA, nobody give me assurance or guarantee that this job is future will pay me at least xx k per year so as to maintain quality of life. Here, two person of equal talent, could be earning 60k and 120k per year. It depends on your skill set, how do you sell yourself, and luck. An example - I have backgound both in Comp Science and Finance, so I look for opportunities where I can use both of them for effective leverage. If you think that I didn't face outsourcing challage or was not given pink slip, then you are wrong. As most professionals, I have seen good days and not-so-good days.
>> Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too.
With your admission, it is employer's choice on how much to pay. As long as law is followed, you or I can NOT decide on anyone else's salary.
>> For the most part it is if it were left to market forces. Employers, rationally, would only want as much as talent for the price they pay. Most importantly, employers would be willing to go the extra mile to sponsor green cards only if they perceive that the immigrant employee would add value both in the present and the future.
Bad things do happen. Projects get cancelled as Customer is no longer interested. Employer wants to move from Chicago to Dallas, that may prompt employee to look elsewhere. Some employers do not process green card at all (It happened to me, a Big Bank was not processing Green Cards in 1999). You assume all good and rosy will happen to guenine employers and good employees.
>> Now again, when I say employers, I mean the genuine employers and not the fly by night consulting body shops or the outsourcing companies.
Just as some employers with permanent positions are not good, there are some employers in Consulting and Outsourcing world that may be good. Let USCIS and other agencies determine who are genuine employers or not.
>> I strongly believe that EB based GC for a very large part is built on merit. You may see sme cases wherein some ordinary people getting green cards. They, in my opinion , are mostly from these body shops who got "lucky". Cant believe I am using that word !!!
No sir. It is employer-employment based. If you don't have employer to back your I-140, how will get green card. Do you know there is a category - Eb3 skilled worker, where benefiery does not even need bachelor degree. What do you think, those people are "lucky". If so, please take your arguement to Senators and USCIS to restict GC for "merit based" only. Until then, as long as one is getting green card, as per current law, (again as per current law), who are we to complain?
GC is not IIT-JEE exam where there is only one classification. Clear the exam and get the admission. There are varoius categories from EB-1 (Rocket Scientist) to EB-4 (Priest). This is not one-size-fits-all.
We need to look at issues faced by EB based community from a distance and without the glasses of issues faced personally by us. Until then, it is fight that one is more deserving than the other.
.
As long as there are people who are ready to work on salary 52k (example), employer will not pay 70k. As long as employer is following all the legal requirements, no one can dictate salary for the job.
I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market. No well meaning employer will undercut to save a few pennies at the risk of losing out on quality.
What if the market pay scales are distorted through pervasive fraud ? If you look at it from an employer's view, it gets murkier. Believe it or not, low cost always signal lower quality. Trust me this is marketing 101. Google low cost and the perceptive signals. It is truly tough for the employer to trust the low cost employee's skillset.
Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud. Like other industries such as manufacturing/agriculture etc, IT wages are destined to decline but not at this rate. The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living. So per your argument, yes the end employer is following the rules by employing people from the outsourcing company because the employer does not know or looks the other way of the outsourcing company committing pervasive fraud. Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too. It was not based on any scientific or statistical evidence.
>> I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is consummate with the market.
I am glad we are on the same page on this. It is employer who decides how much to pay. Employee decides whether to take the offer or not. Simple.
>> Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud.
Well, you can report the fraudulent activity. If one is wronged, he/she has option of legal route and claiming punitive damages.
>> The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living.
If my employer pays me less salary, I have option to move to another job. Just like my employer has option to fire me and replace with another qualified worker. Again, unless otherwise, I assume all actions are legal. I don't know about you, but when I came to USA, nobody give me assurance or guarantee that this job is future will pay me at least xx k per year so as to maintain quality of life. Here, two person of equal talent, could be earning 60k and 120k per year. It depends on your skill set, how do you sell yourself, and luck. An example - I have backgound both in Comp Science and Finance, so I look for opportunities where I can use both of them for effective leverage. If you think that I didn't face outsourcing challage or was not given pink slip, then you are wrong. As most professionals, I have seen good days and not-so-good days.
>> Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too.
With your admission, it is employer's choice on how much to pay. As long as law is followed, you or I can NOT decide on anyone else's salary.
>> For the most part it is if it were left to market forces. Employers, rationally, would only want as much as talent for the price they pay. Most importantly, employers would be willing to go the extra mile to sponsor green cards only if they perceive that the immigrant employee would add value both in the present and the future.
Bad things do happen. Projects get cancelled as Customer is no longer interested. Employer wants to move from Chicago to Dallas, that may prompt employee to look elsewhere. Some employers do not process green card at all (It happened to me, a Big Bank was not processing Green Cards in 1999). You assume all good and rosy will happen to guenine employers and good employees.
>> Now again, when I say employers, I mean the genuine employers and not the fly by night consulting body shops or the outsourcing companies.
Just as some employers with permanent positions are not good, there are some employers in Consulting and Outsourcing world that may be good. Let USCIS and other agencies determine who are genuine employers or not.
>> I strongly believe that EB based GC for a very large part is built on merit. You may see sme cases wherein some ordinary people getting green cards. They, in my opinion , are mostly from these body shops who got "lucky". Cant believe I am using that word !!!
No sir. It is employer-employment based. If you don't have employer to back your I-140, how will get green card. Do you know there is a category - Eb3 skilled worker, where benefiery does not even need bachelor degree. What do you think, those people are "lucky". If so, please take your arguement to Senators and USCIS to restict GC for "merit based" only. Until then, as long as one is getting green card, as per current law, (again as per current law), who are we to complain?
GC is not IIT-JEE exam where there is only one classification. Clear the exam and get the admission. There are varoius categories from EB-1 (Rocket Scientist) to EB-4 (Priest). This is not one-size-fits-all.
We need to look at issues faced by EB based community from a distance and without the glasses of issues faced personally by us. Until then, it is fight that one is more deserving than the other.
.
Legal
07-25 09:13 PM
Next years numbers are not consequential to EB2I movement to be honest. Any realistic movement will depend on spillover. Consider that EB2I is statutorily limited to about 2800 visas(inclusive of family members) without spillover. Whereas spillover has the potential to contribute tens of thousands of visas.
Very true. My speculation :) is most EB2-I upto mid 2006 will be cleared up and the puny new numbers will trickle to keep the PD around June 2006, or slightly earlier rather than going to 2004 or earlier.
Very true. My speculation :) is most EB2-I upto mid 2006 will be cleared up and the puny new numbers will trickle to keep the PD around June 2006, or slightly earlier rather than going to 2004 or earlier.
more...
senthil1
02-13 09:11 AM
I think unused other country quota is used for oversubscribed countries like India and china in the last quarter. If that is true then even removing country quota will not make much difference for Eb3. Now waiting time is 7 years. It will be 5 years for all the countries. When they remove country quota persons from countries like Europe may lose interest in applying gc as they may think is not worth for them to apply and wait 5 years or more as there is not much difference in lifestyle between US and Europe. I doubt US will remove country cap. But we never know as world changes fast nowadays.Anyhow country quota is not correct and it is similar to reservation in India. If reservation concept is correct then country quota is correct as every country in world get benefit.
Ethnicity has nothing to do with skill level. Consider this also, if no other countries come close to the 7% limit, but India and China are maxed out. Guess who loses just because of an arbitrary limit? Guess where those unused greencards go?
They go to a pile of greencards, left unused and wasted. Wash, rinse, repeat the same cycle year on year. June 07 will be a looooooong way away (if you are from a severely retrogressed country), don't kid yourself.
btw... i was agreeing with abhijitp.
Ethnicity has nothing to do with skill level. Consider this also, if no other countries come close to the 7% limit, but India and China are maxed out. Guess who loses just because of an arbitrary limit? Guess where those unused greencards go?
They go to a pile of greencards, left unused and wasted. Wash, rinse, repeat the same cycle year on year. June 07 will be a looooooong way away (if you are from a severely retrogressed country), don't kid yourself.
btw... i was agreeing with abhijitp.
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onemoredesi
05-19 01:12 PM
Thx for the info.. knowDOL. Could you pls suggest me where you found that information (reg EB3 not coming under the cap).
Also, I have not received my 45 day letter so far.. don't know how long it is going to take..
August 2003 is a good PD if it were EB2 and you could have stayed with your company. I heard in this forum from someone that, if the person is Masters graduate and worked in related for three years they are exempt from cap even though they applied in EB3 category. If this is true, it is good for you to stay in your current company and not try substitution. If this is not true and if I were you I would have gone for substitution.
What ever you do, do it with good terms with your current employer, so you can come back and join them and be able to use the 2003 PD, if some thing goes wrong with your substitution. If you leave the company and join something else, if you think that you cannot join them back, then it may not worth it. Again, it depends on your personal situation, if you don't have a spouse who is waiting for EAD to work, you should not be risking this.
Also, I have not received my 45 day letter so far.. don't know how long it is going to take..
August 2003 is a good PD if it were EB2 and you could have stayed with your company. I heard in this forum from someone that, if the person is Masters graduate and worked in related for three years they are exempt from cap even though they applied in EB3 category. If this is true, it is good for you to stay in your current company and not try substitution. If this is not true and if I were you I would have gone for substitution.
What ever you do, do it with good terms with your current employer, so you can come back and join them and be able to use the 2003 PD, if some thing goes wrong with your substitution. If you leave the company and join something else, if you think that you cannot join them back, then it may not worth it. Again, it depends on your personal situation, if you don't have a spouse who is waiting for EAD to work, you should not be risking this.
more...
prem_goel
05-29 03:02 PM
I've met couple of guys who came on L1 and have filed GC in EB1. they are simply project managers and exploited this loop hole... I'd raised this issue earlier but was scoffed stating that I would have done the same if I would have been at their place...Felt like slapping the guy who made this stupid comment.
Given that we have played by the rules, lets prevent any kind of fraud to make sure that there is FIFO.....
Please PM me if you have the details.
Given that we have played by the rules, lets prevent any kind of fraud to make sure that there is FIFO.....
Please PM me if you have the details.
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mbawa2574
02-16 08:21 AM
Sir, first, not that I will listen to you, but you have no business telling anybody that IV doesn't need them, it's very serious when every disgruntled member decides to speak on others behalf and tell people who disagree with them they need to leave IV
second, do u have a crystal ball that allows you to know my feelings more than I do and put words in my mouth that i didn't say.. when i say that bodyshops participated in creating the disproportionate lines for india and china where do you get an insult or conclude that i want indians and chinese to disappear or that i feel i lack marketable skills..
stick to arguments please instead of these endless fabrications.
Did you not write in your post said that Indians and Chinese are flooding US via bodyshopping. DO read your earlier posts before writing back here.You can speak whatever but no one will listen to your racism and bigotry at least not here. U got problems with these Indians and Chinese go somewhere else and release your bigotry. You never answered my question about rally participation since you have been planted here by some anti-immigrant org for obvious reasons. Members like you are trying to divide IV based on race and there is no place for you here.So again I will say that get out of here if you have problems with race.
second, do u have a crystal ball that allows you to know my feelings more than I do and put words in my mouth that i didn't say.. when i say that bodyshops participated in creating the disproportionate lines for india and china where do you get an insult or conclude that i want indians and chinese to disappear or that i feel i lack marketable skills..
stick to arguments please instead of these endless fabrications.
Did you not write in your post said that Indians and Chinese are flooding US via bodyshopping. DO read your earlier posts before writing back here.You can speak whatever but no one will listen to your racism and bigotry at least not here. U got problems with these Indians and Chinese go somewhere else and release your bigotry. You never answered my question about rally participation since you have been planted here by some anti-immigrant org for obvious reasons. Members like you are trying to divide IV based on race and there is no place for you here.So again I will say that get out of here if you have problems with race.
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add78
01-22 05:40 PM
I got the below email from multiple friends. I don't know what is the source, who wrote this analysis because there is no links. I did NOT mean to spread the fear. Just sharing the contents unaltered.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How this memorandum relates to the recent deportation events from NY and NJ airports?
There seems to be an anticipated link between these 2 events – Memorandum and recent Deportations – kind of an indication about the current level of government scrutiny and seriousness of the H1B program. Hence, there have been advices by others that – each employer and employee should operate by strictly following the H1B program requirements.
Please don't spread rumors or chain emails clearly written by antis or h1b haters who want to instill fear among the consultants working at client site. If you read the memo correctly, at the bottom it clearly states that it should NOT be used by CBP as a means of removal proceedings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How this memorandum relates to the recent deportation events from NY and NJ airports?
There seems to be an anticipated link between these 2 events – Memorandum and recent Deportations – kind of an indication about the current level of government scrutiny and seriousness of the H1B program. Hence, there have been advices by others that – each employer and employee should operate by strictly following the H1B program requirements.
Please don't spread rumors or chain emails clearly written by antis or h1b haters who want to instill fear among the consultants working at client site. If you read the memo correctly, at the bottom it clearly states that it should NOT be used by CBP as a means of removal proceedings.
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gjoe
02-13 04:46 PM
I agree to a lot of your points - the community has to evolve and not be pushed. All I say is for those who talk the talk, if they walk the talk - they become a good example and the community will grow.
Please do not take this as criticism. I respect everyone's space - come on folks we can collectively do it - why do we want to resist unity? It does no damage to us but only helps us for whatever cause we want to achieve, otherwise we will always be under the radar of people like Lou Dobbs and his likes - just because we are not vocal.
I am sure, one day the community will rise :)
There is moment in history when everything starts falling in place, until then nothing will seem like working right.
But when we reach the critical mass you will see this thing take off, until then buckel up your seat belts and expect the tide to set in soon.
Please do not take this as criticism. I respect everyone's space - come on folks we can collectively do it - why do we want to resist unity? It does no damage to us but only helps us for whatever cause we want to achieve, otherwise we will always be under the radar of people like Lou Dobbs and his likes - just because we are not vocal.
I am sure, one day the community will rise :)
There is moment in history when everything starts falling in place, until then nothing will seem like working right.
But when we reach the critical mass you will see this thing take off, until then buckel up your seat belts and expect the tide to set in soon.
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meridiani.planum
07-26 04:29 AM
OK, OK, easy with the optimism Vdlrao!:)
Eb India has almost always got more than its statutory limit in the recent past. So to say that the new developments will give us 20 yrs worth of visas is not correct based on the events of recent years.
good point. AFAIK only once in the last 8 yaers did EB2 India really get limited to ~3k. Every year it has been nearly 10x that number. Its just htat this has all been formalized now by USCIS. There is no sudden 10X change in visa allocation that people will see...
Eb India has almost always got more than its statutory limit in the recent past. So to say that the new developments will give us 20 yrs worth of visas is not correct based on the events of recent years.
good point. AFAIK only once in the last 8 yaers did EB2 India really get limited to ~3k. Every year it has been nearly 10x that number. Its just htat this has all been formalized now by USCIS. There is no sudden 10X change in visa allocation that people will see...
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test101
07-10 10:11 PM
The thing is - people are crazy about USA, no matter what - so if you leave someone else will come - thats the attitude here. Exploitation to the core. The way America was built is by slavery. America became such a great country only because of slavery. There were moments in past where people revolted and found liberty - and we are all on that path. Look at the Black civil rights moment etc.
The problem with the current immigration policy that the government is forcing the companies to outsource the HI-TECK jobs and needed skilled immigrants works like RNS to Canada, and other countries. These jobs could be taken by American maybe, but now they wont have that chance.
The job that suppose to exsit and be filled by american or immigrant in the teck industry is not going to exist in the US. Instead it's going to exist in Canada for an immigrant.
The US faces huge nursing shortage, nurses are going Canada and Australia, same for PT's. US is not going to get the tax money, social security nor the jobs. High paid jobs like HI-TECK and nurses,..ect get taxed more and now this tax is going to be in anther country.
MS started outsourcing, Oracle is following. Nurses & PT's educated in the US are leaving it. This current policy is not for the greater good of the country, it's by cheer of bureaucratic incompetence.
This is going to become more than just an immigration problem. This is going to hurt the economy& health care real bad if they do not fix it.
stay toned 5 more years of this and see how bad it's going to get.
The problem with the current immigration policy that the government is forcing the companies to outsource the HI-TECK jobs and needed skilled immigrants works like RNS to Canada, and other countries. These jobs could be taken by American maybe, but now they wont have that chance.
The job that suppose to exsit and be filled by american or immigrant in the teck industry is not going to exist in the US. Instead it's going to exist in Canada for an immigrant.
The US faces huge nursing shortage, nurses are going Canada and Australia, same for PT's. US is not going to get the tax money, social security nor the jobs. High paid jobs like HI-TECK and nurses,..ect get taxed more and now this tax is going to be in anther country.
MS started outsourcing, Oracle is following. Nurses & PT's educated in the US are leaving it. This current policy is not for the greater good of the country, it's by cheer of bureaucratic incompetence.
This is going to become more than just an immigration problem. This is going to hurt the economy& health care real bad if they do not fix it.
stay toned 5 more years of this and see how bad it's going to get.
more...
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waitingmygc
01-14 02:30 PM
By remembering July, 2007 fiasco, I see an opportunity to build a lobby here in favor of legal immigrants (H1B, waiting for GC etc.)which will help all.
Act now, by mailing and talking to your employer about this memorandum if working with consulting company (doesn�t matter working with direct client or not, has EAD or not, GC priority is close or far) because employer is worst affected, they will of course will engage the attorneys. Attorneys are also affected with memorandum. This will help to build a big lobby here (remember July, 2007 fiasco) . Then, joining of IV members will help in result of BIG BIG BIG lobby.
Act now, by mailing and talking to your employer about this memorandum if working with consulting company (doesn�t matter working with direct client or not, has EAD or not, GC priority is close or far) because employer is worst affected, they will of course will engage the attorneys. Attorneys are also affected with memorandum. This will help to build a big lobby here (remember July, 2007 fiasco) . Then, joining of IV members will help in result of BIG BIG BIG lobby.
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Pineapple
12-14 02:16 PM
I agree with alterego.
There is another compelling argument against taking the lawsuit way, even if assuming there is a case to be made, and we have plenty of money. (The first is unclear, the second is a firm no, but let us assume anyway for the sake or argument)
One of the reasons why Roe v Wade, 34 years on, is still a controversial decision today is the fact that the US is probably unique in the world in the sense that a constitutionality argument was used to decide public policy.
In Europe, as in other parts of the world, abortion was considered as a health issue, and handled via legislation and health care guidelines.
But because it was a constitutionality issue in US, and enforced from the bench, a significant portion of the populace felt left out of the decision making process, which stimulated a simmering opposition and entrenched the main actors of the "culture wars", which persist to this day.
There is significant debate even among liberals whether Roe V Wade has helped or harmed the liberal cause, and if knowing what we know, there could have been another approach to achieve the same end.
In a nutshell, approaching the courts is a double edged sword. There may be some strategic gains in the short term, but the long term impact is unclear and unpredictable. A legislative approach might be slower and incremental, but it is less risky.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
This is exactly correct. It is not the question of right or wrong here. That is what gets folks so upset on this thread, they feel since their viewpoint s right then.......... Most neutral observers like mbartosik can see this as unjust and there may be many in the US as well, however certainly not the majority. However, there are many ways in which this could backfire. One example is the recently seen debate over illegal immigration and the turn in public sentiment. Truth be told, if someone did something wrong 12 yrs ago(crossed the fence), now is married to a US citizen and has 3 US children, what do you do with them? What about the 3yr old who was brought to the USA by their parents and knows no other system? Perhaps a few years ago joe public would have given them a pass, no more, the debate has become so nasty that positions have been hardened to the point that reason does not prevail. Another reason has something to do with the perceived sense of entitlement Americans sensed in the illegal immigrant community(of course fanned by Lou Dobbs and his ilk). These are complex issues and generally you will get a lot further appealing to someones sense of fairness than explaining how you are entitled to something and will take it from them if it is not given to you.
There is another compelling argument against taking the lawsuit way, even if assuming there is a case to be made, and we have plenty of money. (The first is unclear, the second is a firm no, but let us assume anyway for the sake or argument)
One of the reasons why Roe v Wade, 34 years on, is still a controversial decision today is the fact that the US is probably unique in the world in the sense that a constitutionality argument was used to decide public policy.
In Europe, as in other parts of the world, abortion was considered as a health issue, and handled via legislation and health care guidelines.
But because it was a constitutionality issue in US, and enforced from the bench, a significant portion of the populace felt left out of the decision making process, which stimulated a simmering opposition and entrenched the main actors of the "culture wars", which persist to this day.
There is significant debate even among liberals whether Roe V Wade has helped or harmed the liberal cause, and if knowing what we know, there could have been another approach to achieve the same end.
In a nutshell, approaching the courts is a double edged sword. There may be some strategic gains in the short term, but the long term impact is unclear and unpredictable. A legislative approach might be slower and incremental, but it is less risky.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
This is exactly correct. It is not the question of right or wrong here. That is what gets folks so upset on this thread, they feel since their viewpoint s right then.......... Most neutral observers like mbartosik can see this as unjust and there may be many in the US as well, however certainly not the majority. However, there are many ways in which this could backfire. One example is the recently seen debate over illegal immigration and the turn in public sentiment. Truth be told, if someone did something wrong 12 yrs ago(crossed the fence), now is married to a US citizen and has 3 US children, what do you do with them? What about the 3yr old who was brought to the USA by their parents and knows no other system? Perhaps a few years ago joe public would have given them a pass, no more, the debate has become so nasty that positions have been hardened to the point that reason does not prevail. Another reason has something to do with the perceived sense of entitlement Americans sensed in the illegal immigrant community(of course fanned by Lou Dobbs and his ilk). These are complex issues and generally you will get a lot further appealing to someones sense of fairness than explaining how you are entitled to something and will take it from them if it is not given to you.
more...
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vkrishn
07-21 02:39 PM
I shouldn't say "Nice to see so many bay area folsk with bad expereience". I should probably use the word Interesting instead of "nice".Sorry about that.
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snathan
08-19 10:13 AM
Another story doing the rounds.....
SRK as usual did not comb his hair and was dressed shabbily...
Immigration officer: Who are you?
SRK with a loud voice: " Im KING KHAN ".
Immigration officer: What......???
Other Immigration officer: Sir! He said he is KING KONG.....
Immigration officer : Guys catch the monkey in disguise......
SRK: Maahaaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa...
Immigration officer: Sir...Howz the monkey sounding like a Goat????
So this is how SRK was caged in America...
SRK as usual did not comb his hair and was dressed shabbily...
Immigration officer: Who are you?
SRK with a loud voice: " Im KING KHAN ".
Immigration officer: What......???
Other Immigration officer: Sir! He said he is KING KONG.....
Immigration officer : Guys catch the monkey in disguise......
SRK: Maahaaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa...
Immigration officer: Sir...Howz the monkey sounding like a Goat????
So this is how SRK was caged in America...
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chanduv23
07-10 08:47 PM
I am a Canadian citizen, from my experience Canada government does respect more for immigrants, health system is much better, and more elites moved there for higher quality of living standards.
There are also lots of good companies in Canada, where I have gained GOOD experiences.
For professionals like us, at least Canadian government treat us with dignity and as a human being, not like some illegal labour worker lurking in US, we are all LEGAL and proved no local candidates for these jobs. I have been exploited by my company for almost 4 years, current salary is 10K less then standard, even though I have 14 years of working experiences, when it comes to promotion, my boss prefer a fresh graduates and want me to teach him so he can get promoted on top of me.
USICS Recent unconscionable retrogression really top off all previous deeds. We are educated high professionals, it is understable if immigrants are not welcome, but can they do it in a professional way? If so, why not just stop accepting immigration applications? why still accepting our money and leave us in this limbo situation? And creating all the excuses AFTER taking our money?
We are dealing with the government department which suppose to be all professionals and educated people. And this is not some third world countries which law is not a concern, or anybody can be bribed to do anything they want to the public.
Feeling numb should be the best way to deal with all these madness, and fellow professionals I keep praying for us and remember dont let it gets to you emotionally, there will always be a way and everything happens for a reason.
God is watching, He knows and will be the judge and bless all of us.
:)
The thing is - people are crazy about USA, no matter what - so if you leave someone else will come - thats the attitude here. Exploitation to the core. The way America was built is by slavery. America became such a great country only because of slavery. There were moments in past where people revolted and found liberty - and we are all on that path. Look at the Black civil rights moment etc.
There are also lots of good companies in Canada, where I have gained GOOD experiences.
For professionals like us, at least Canadian government treat us with dignity and as a human being, not like some illegal labour worker lurking in US, we are all LEGAL and proved no local candidates for these jobs. I have been exploited by my company for almost 4 years, current salary is 10K less then standard, even though I have 14 years of working experiences, when it comes to promotion, my boss prefer a fresh graduates and want me to teach him so he can get promoted on top of me.
USICS Recent unconscionable retrogression really top off all previous deeds. We are educated high professionals, it is understable if immigrants are not welcome, but can they do it in a professional way? If so, why not just stop accepting immigration applications? why still accepting our money and leave us in this limbo situation? And creating all the excuses AFTER taking our money?
We are dealing with the government department which suppose to be all professionals and educated people. And this is not some third world countries which law is not a concern, or anybody can be bribed to do anything they want to the public.
Feeling numb should be the best way to deal with all these madness, and fellow professionals I keep praying for us and remember dont let it gets to you emotionally, there will always be a way and everything happens for a reason.
God is watching, He knows and will be the judge and bless all of us.
:)
The thing is - people are crazy about USA, no matter what - so if you leave someone else will come - thats the attitude here. Exploitation to the core. The way America was built is by slavery. America became such a great country only because of slavery. There were moments in past where people revolted and found liberty - and we are all on that path. Look at the Black civil rights moment etc.
chanduv23
02-13 06:09 PM
friends,
you have 29 people in favor.
great! each one needs to put their time and money where their mouths (mouses) are.
i suggest: take up a collection, then go get top notch legal opinion.
until you do this, no point going forward, this is going to be a very
important step.
c'mon folks step up...get a collection plate out and open your pockets.
It is also very important that the people voting in favour are serious and will not drop out.
Lets not cajole or motivate people - let them come in by themselves and vote on this.
Those who vote on this thread, please update your profile information on IV, give your valid name, valid email id, valid phone number at the least so that you can be counted on.
CAN WE WALK THE TALK?
you have 29 people in favor.
great! each one needs to put their time and money where their mouths (mouses) are.
i suggest: take up a collection, then go get top notch legal opinion.
until you do this, no point going forward, this is going to be a very
important step.
c'mon folks step up...get a collection plate out and open your pockets.
It is also very important that the people voting in favour are serious and will not drop out.
Lets not cajole or motivate people - let them come in by themselves and vote on this.
Those who vote on this thread, please update your profile information on IV, give your valid name, valid email id, valid phone number at the least so that you can be counted on.
CAN WE WALK THE TALK?
san_visa
08-03 02:13 PM
I have applied (I-140) EB3 :mad: in May 06 using substitution. My case is not through yet...waiting for approval.
My lawyer did a typo :mad: filed me under Manager/Executive category [EB3] and received notification from USCIS requesting additional evidence. The lawyer responded to the RFE.
Hopefully my case will be processed in August 06 !
I should receive response anytime soon I will keep you posted.
Thanks,
San
My lawyer did a typo :mad: filed me under Manager/Executive category [EB3] and received notification from USCIS requesting additional evidence. The lawyer responded to the RFE.
Hopefully my case will be processed in August 06 !
I should receive response anytime soon I will keep you posted.
Thanks,
San
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