unitednations
02-13 03:00 PM
Whether overflow happens vertically or horzontaly is subject to interpretation and we cannot really say if EB3 ROW is getting any undue advantage.....
That matter can be litigated.....
You guys still think it is horizontal. This has been discussed so many times with reference to the law; the note in november 2005 visa bulletin; another lawyer who received statistics in chinees overall approvals for 2006 which were going to be close to 7% and you guys still believe this is a gray area.
the november 2005 visa bulletin made it black and white. It is no gray any longer. AC21 didn't do anything to change to horizontal; only spillover is allowed in quarter not annual.
Hard to understand why people think it is still gray.
That matter can be litigated.....
You guys still think it is horizontal. This has been discussed so many times with reference to the law; the note in november 2005 visa bulletin; another lawyer who received statistics in chinees overall approvals for 2006 which were going to be close to 7% and you guys still believe this is a gray area.
the november 2005 visa bulletin made it black and white. It is no gray any longer. AC21 didn't do anything to change to horizontal; only spillover is allowed in quarter not annual.
Hard to understand why people think it is still gray.
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ksiddaba
07-04 11:46 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/us/04visas.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Please forward by email using the link on the right of the button. Let's try to get this in the most emailed list at NYT. Surely give us exposure.
Please forward by email using the link on the right of the button. Let's try to get this in the most emailed list at NYT. Surely give us exposure.
amitga
02-15 06:08 PM
What happend when a law contradicts another law. There is a law which says slavery in unlawful and 'employment at will' is the right of every person on US Soil.
Now another law is that to limit the number of visa which is causing the voilation of above mentioed law. USCIS is follwing the law of visa numbers. In the process the other laws are being voilated. Somebody should be liable for that.
Now another law is that to limit the number of visa which is causing the voilation of above mentioed law. USCIS is follwing the law of visa numbers. In the process the other laws are being voilated. Somebody should be liable for that.
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sundevil
05-29 02:48 PM
I agree with your ultimate conclusion that we need legislative changes, but I am with complaining about fraudulent EB1 apps. Every fraud starts off small. Even this applying H1B without a job and then sit on the bench for a few months and find a job was started as a few thousand at one time. Now it is a fraud monster, we have learnt to live with.
I for one believe changing EB3 to EB2 is not even in the same ballpark as EB1 fraud, most people in EB3 are deserving or will become deserving EB2 while waiting. But EB1 fraud is straight up that, FRAUD, even labor sub takes a distant second to that.
:) he did say hope is on the way...but forgot to say which way or he was try to say what would hope's tombstone read...
Here lies HOPE...it was IN the WAY :rolleyes:
to the others who are bitching and moaning about EB1's, a few months back we were worried about the EB3 converting to EB2..before that we were worried that EB3's were getting more visas than EB2's and so on.....we will keep fighting about the handfull of misallocated visas or work towards recapture. The most important thing from Murthy's letter is that USCIS has started preadjudicating 485 which simply means that there are ton of people stuck in this mess who are waiting to be approved... a handful of visas is nothing...lets all unite and work towards recapture.
I for one believe changing EB3 to EB2 is not even in the same ballpark as EB1 fraud, most people in EB3 are deserving or will become deserving EB2 while waiting. But EB1 fraud is straight up that, FRAUD, even labor sub takes a distant second to that.
:) he did say hope is on the way...but forgot to say which way or he was try to say what would hope's tombstone read...
Here lies HOPE...it was IN the WAY :rolleyes:
to the others who are bitching and moaning about EB1's, a few months back we were worried about the EB3 converting to EB2..before that we were worried that EB3's were getting more visas than EB2's and so on.....we will keep fighting about the handfull of misallocated visas or work towards recapture. The most important thing from Murthy's letter is that USCIS has started preadjudicating 485 which simply means that there are ton of people stuck in this mess who are waiting to be approved... a handful of visas is nothing...lets all unite and work towards recapture.
more...
chintu25
02-13 10:14 AM
I agree with some senior members when they say that no one individual will come forward for the lawsuit . And I ask why should they ??
And I think, even if one single or 2-3 people do come forward it will not be possible.
This is the reason we have forums like our IV so that all can come together and take a decisive step together .
Who can stop IV to file a lawsuit USCIS ? NO ONE
Many members went on blabbering about how long the process is and how expensive it is ... REMINDER if we can come together and collect upwards of 35k FOR "Lobbying Efforts" we can definitely collect funds for a lawsuit.
Some one here rightly said ...If we are retrogessed and there is a queue ..Is it because of you or me NO it is due to the inefficiency of the USCIS.
NO ROAD IS EASY IN THIS BATTLE..... AND ALL OPTIONS SHOULD BE EXPLORED
Again , I want to reiterate , I think if IV core takes lead...hires a good attorney ....we will have funds for it....we have proved it in the past that IVians can contribute
And I think, even if one single or 2-3 people do come forward it will not be possible.
This is the reason we have forums like our IV so that all can come together and take a decisive step together .
Who can stop IV to file a lawsuit USCIS ? NO ONE
Many members went on blabbering about how long the process is and how expensive it is ... REMINDER if we can come together and collect upwards of 35k FOR "Lobbying Efforts" we can definitely collect funds for a lawsuit.
Some one here rightly said ...If we are retrogessed and there is a queue ..Is it because of you or me NO it is due to the inefficiency of the USCIS.
NO ROAD IS EASY IN THIS BATTLE..... AND ALL OPTIONS SHOULD BE EXPLORED
Again , I want to reiterate , I think if IV core takes lead...hires a good attorney ....we will have funds for it....we have proved it in the past that IVians can contribute
CADude
04-18 02:49 PM
immigration-law.com
04/18/2007: Further Clarification on Pending I-140 Substitution Petitions and Proposed Substitution Elimination Rule
There are a couple of clarifications we want to make on our previous posting on this issue. The supplemental information part of a regulation is not binding, but when there is a room for interpretation on specific provisions of the rule itself, it gives a guidance to the interpretation. In this regards, for now, the correction to our previous interpretation should stand. Secondly, there is no information available about this issue in the final regulation which is expected to be released sooner or later. Whatever the final version will look, it may be prudent for the employers with the certified labor certification applications to file the substitution I-140 petitions as soon as possible before the final rule is released.
04/18/2007: Clarification and Correction of Scope of Validity of Substitution of Approved Labor Certifications Under the Proposed Substitution Elimination Rule
The final rule to eliminate the substitution is expected to be released in the near future. One question that raises the body heat has been the pending I-140 substitution petitions which have yet to be approved. Under the proposed regulation, there was a provision that the substitution approved at the time of enactment of the final rule will not be affected by the elimination rule. We previously interpreted the language "substitution approved" would include the approved I-140 substitution petitions and would not include the pending I-140 substitution petitions.
We want to correct such interpretation. The substitution approved under the proposed rule appears to mean the substitution approved by the DOL and not necessarily the I-140 substitution approval. Accordingly, if the I-140 has been filed and is pending at the time enactment of the final rule, such case should not be affected by the elimination rule and remain valid. This is made clear by the following supplemental information to the proposed regulaation:
Substitution of alien beneficiaries will be prohibited as of the effective date of a final rule resulting from this NPRM and that prohibition will apply to all pending permanent labor certification applications and to approved certifications not yet filed with DHS, whether the application was filed under the prior or current regulation. This regulatory change would not affect substitutions approved prior to the final rule's effective date.
We stand corrected on this change.
04/18/2007: Further Clarification on Pending I-140 Substitution Petitions and Proposed Substitution Elimination Rule
There are a couple of clarifications we want to make on our previous posting on this issue. The supplemental information part of a regulation is not binding, but when there is a room for interpretation on specific provisions of the rule itself, it gives a guidance to the interpretation. In this regards, for now, the correction to our previous interpretation should stand. Secondly, there is no information available about this issue in the final regulation which is expected to be released sooner or later. Whatever the final version will look, it may be prudent for the employers with the certified labor certification applications to file the substitution I-140 petitions as soon as possible before the final rule is released.
04/18/2007: Clarification and Correction of Scope of Validity of Substitution of Approved Labor Certifications Under the Proposed Substitution Elimination Rule
The final rule to eliminate the substitution is expected to be released in the near future. One question that raises the body heat has been the pending I-140 substitution petitions which have yet to be approved. Under the proposed regulation, there was a provision that the substitution approved at the time of enactment of the final rule will not be affected by the elimination rule. We previously interpreted the language "substitution approved" would include the approved I-140 substitution petitions and would not include the pending I-140 substitution petitions.
We want to correct such interpretation. The substitution approved under the proposed rule appears to mean the substitution approved by the DOL and not necessarily the I-140 substitution approval. Accordingly, if the I-140 has been filed and is pending at the time enactment of the final rule, such case should not be affected by the elimination rule and remain valid. This is made clear by the following supplemental information to the proposed regulaation:
Substitution of alien beneficiaries will be prohibited as of the effective date of a final rule resulting from this NPRM and that prohibition will apply to all pending permanent labor certification applications and to approved certifications not yet filed with DHS, whether the application was filed under the prior or current regulation. This regulatory change would not affect substitutions approved prior to the final rule's effective date.
We stand corrected on this change.
more...
kumjay
06-27 04:30 PM
Columbus brought Rajiv Khanna and Sheela Murthy to create/interpret all the immigration rules for this new found land. When Columbus landed here, he declared all native americans as illegal premanent residents. All of them had to go through a change of status process (I-539) to become legal permament residents. Well.....native Indian did not have latestes or any pay stubs...so they had to go out of the country and re-enter to claim their legal status.....that's why they moved to South Dacota. That time South Dacota wasn't a part of USA......blah blah blah...
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hydboy77
05-29 04:36 PM
I agree with what you said except I would add those past mid 2004 instead of 2005 as hopeless situation in eb2 india. I dont think the Eb2 India will ever move past March/april 2004. Infact with every visa bulletin the EB2 india dates will start moving backward to 2003-2002. One silver lining is Eb3 to eb2 porting will be completely useless. It now takes atleast 6 monts for perm to clear( this is the best case), EB2 is almost impossible to get, if you take a risk and apply in eb2 almost gaurenteed for audit. atleast now we have a clear picture of how many decades(no pun intended) it takes for eb2 and eb3 India to get there green card. My guess is obama\durbin\grassley are figuring out how to kick us out. I remember one of the tactics that the conservatives proposed for kicking out the illegals was to make it difficult for illegals to get employed by imposing heavy fines on employers for hiring illegals. Obama durbin and the democrats are using the same tactics with just a minor difference, instead of illegals they (obama\durbin et al) are going after legals by issuing RFE on EVL even for 485 etc etc etc. Basically they want to haress and make us so dejected that we will leave US and they can keep our social security taxes for wealth redistribution. most of us (atleast the people who graduated out of US universities) gave the prime part of our lives for this country, now we are being treated like we are not even humans. How can anybody work in US for 10+ years and still not have a green card and face the possibility of being kicked out.
Ok, the guy that sets the dates says that he sees no possibility of dates moving forward for EB India and ppl are still thinking there is hope? I am an optimist and try to see the brighter side - and that side here is that we know there is no hope for those past 2005 in the next two years. That to me is sufficient to make decisions and move on. Be it changing to a different job or going back to the home country - most probably the former for me.
Ok, the guy that sets the dates says that he sees no possibility of dates moving forward for EB India and ppl are still thinking there is hope? I am an optimist and try to see the brighter side - and that side here is that we know there is no hope for those past 2005 in the next two years. That to me is sufficient to make decisions and move on. Be it changing to a different job or going back to the home country - most probably the former for me.
more...
sri1309
09-23 05:53 PM
I am titled towards this idea. We can say its hard to get a mortgage with the status pending..
But nobody likes my idea ? Premium processing @$10K. I am sure there will many who would like to do it, but based on response I got, I am doubting now.. Anyone who thinks this can be proposed too?
But pls keep calling on 5882.. I still feel there is a chance..
But nobody likes my idea ? Premium processing @$10K. I am sure there will many who would like to do it, but based on response I got, I am doubting now.. Anyone who thinks this can be proposed too?
But pls keep calling on 5882.. I still feel there is a chance..
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Jerrome
09-17 09:53 AM
Hi this is the following # of approved PERM for India by month-wise.
Month EB (INDIA) # Approved
Jan,05 0
Feb,05 0
Mar,05 1
Apr,05 24
May,05 133
June,05 535
July,05 794
Aug,05 1313
Sep,05 1316
Oct,05 1212
Nov,05 1541
Dec,05 1771
Jan,06 1788
Feb,06 1729
Mar,06 2224
Apr,06 1635
May,06 1876
June,06 1902
July,06 1574
Aug,06 1317
Sep,06 963
Received_Date is the priority Date
- You could see there are cases approved in Year 2006 which are submitted in 2005. So you have to consider them.
As someone else already mentioned you can not calculate the #s from October 2006 onwards as there is no Received_date column in the msaccess datatabase file.
But in 2007 Access database file the approved date is last quarter of 2006 files there, so you have to assume the # of approvals based on that.
Month EB (INDIA) # Approved
Jan,05 0
Feb,05 0
Mar,05 1
Apr,05 24
May,05 133
June,05 535
July,05 794
Aug,05 1313
Sep,05 1316
Oct,05 1212
Nov,05 1541
Dec,05 1771
Jan,06 1788
Feb,06 1729
Mar,06 2224
Apr,06 1635
May,06 1876
June,06 1902
July,06 1574
Aug,06 1317
Sep,06 963
Received_Date is the priority Date
- You could see there are cases approved in Year 2006 which are submitted in 2005. So you have to consider them.
As someone else already mentioned you can not calculate the #s from October 2006 onwards as there is no Received_date column in the msaccess datatabase file.
But in 2007 Access database file the approved date is last quarter of 2006 files there, so you have to assume the # of approvals based on that.
more...
manusingh
09-13 10:27 PM
I filed my EB2 NIW in 2007, I 140 approved. Can change employer and move to another state, will it bring any RFE in future for 485 approval.
If I change my field chemistry to biochemistry how is it going to affect my NIW petition.
thanks
If I change my field chemistry to biochemistry how is it going to affect my NIW petition.
thanks
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cagedcactus
06-21 03:20 PM
I took upon a couple of new employess in 2004 October and trained them for couple of months as per my job requirement. The company later laid off few guys and substituted two approved labors with these two guys. They got their greencards last year, while I am stuck with a F***ing 2003 PD.
I cant even say how mad I was over getting screwed like this, but hey, if there is any good left, maybe I will have my day too........
I agree with your post here.....
Many of us are not aware of the extend of labor subtituion and the impact that it has on the visa numbers .
I personally know a case where 1-140 was filed in 2005, for a Labor which was approved as early as 2000.
The person was able to get his green card in 6 months time (he has been in US only for 1 year, came to work with the Indian company and joined this new firm just to get his substitute LC) and ate away 2 visa numbers which a genuine GC applicant should have got.
When there are applicants who are waiting for more than 5-7 years to get their green card and in some cases just to get through the labor certification process , isnt this grossly unfair?
Advocates support LC substituion as it is just one more avenue for them to make more money. Unscrupulous employers support the LC substituion since it helps them to make money ( as I understand many of these companies sell LC) . Also same LC is used multiple times.
The losers are genuine GC applicants who are ethical and companies which are ethical.
As a H4 visa holder my life in this country has been so very limited that even opening a bank account or getting a driving licence is tedious as most people have no clue about H4 Visa-its limitations including absence of SSN and donot acknowledge ITIN number for many of the above purposes.
We who are hindered by retrogression and the slow processing (actually no processing at all ) happening in the backlog centers should welcome this new legislation for Banning LC substituion.
I cant even say how mad I was over getting screwed like this, but hey, if there is any good left, maybe I will have my day too........
I agree with your post here.....
Many of us are not aware of the extend of labor subtituion and the impact that it has on the visa numbers .
I personally know a case where 1-140 was filed in 2005, for a Labor which was approved as early as 2000.
The person was able to get his green card in 6 months time (he has been in US only for 1 year, came to work with the Indian company and joined this new firm just to get his substitute LC) and ate away 2 visa numbers which a genuine GC applicant should have got.
When there are applicants who are waiting for more than 5-7 years to get their green card and in some cases just to get through the labor certification process , isnt this grossly unfair?
Advocates support LC substituion as it is just one more avenue for them to make more money. Unscrupulous employers support the LC substituion since it helps them to make money ( as I understand many of these companies sell LC) . Also same LC is used multiple times.
The losers are genuine GC applicants who are ethical and companies which are ethical.
As a H4 visa holder my life in this country has been so very limited that even opening a bank account or getting a driving licence is tedious as most people have no clue about H4 Visa-its limitations including absence of SSN and donot acknowledge ITIN number for many of the above purposes.
We who are hindered by retrogression and the slow processing (actually no processing at all ) happening in the backlog centers should welcome this new legislation for Banning LC substituion.
more...
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Kushal
07-27 12:35 AM
My desi neighbor told me about it recently. What are your experience with Amway Quickstar. Have you guys made money from it?
Its like asking an anti-immigrant, what you think about legal/illegal immigration?
I guess you would get better idea if you call up Amway corporation or FTC and find out. And not from other who spend their time flipping channels and burping beer.
As far as I know there are people from US Army, NASA scientists, NFL players, pastors etc.....from different background are very successfully building the franchise business. No wonder they are growing $1.2 billion dollars every year since 1950.
Of course is not for everyone; its only for people who know the power of free enterprise on which this country is built on.
Question is whether it will work for you? Your families finances are decided by you, and not by any other people. If you do take advice from other, then you will be flipping channels and burping beer too, and it takes one big financial hit to wipe you off the slate.
Its like asking an anti-immigrant, what you think about legal/illegal immigration?
I guess you would get better idea if you call up Amway corporation or FTC and find out. And not from other who spend their time flipping channels and burping beer.
As far as I know there are people from US Army, NASA scientists, NFL players, pastors etc.....from different background are very successfully building the franchise business. No wonder they are growing $1.2 billion dollars every year since 1950.
Of course is not for everyone; its only for people who know the power of free enterprise on which this country is built on.
Question is whether it will work for you? Your families finances are decided by you, and not by any other people. If you do take advice from other, then you will be flipping channels and burping beer too, and it takes one big financial hit to wipe you off the slate.
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ujjvalkoul
10-04 03:49 PM
I sent my application to Buffalo early Sep., however, have not received the receipt # yet. My friend told me it only took a couple of weeks for him to get his last year.
Just wonder how long it is gonna take, thanks for any headsup!
PRoabably 1 -2 months to get receipt letter
Just wonder how long it is gonna take, thanks for any headsup!
PRoabably 1 -2 months to get receipt letter
more...
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Sunx_2004
12-07 01:29 PM
Very good idea, with interest rate going down there is an opportunity for those who are looking to buy the house.
And for those who already have house, If their green card messed up than you see more foreclosures.
No matter, who are planning to buy house or who already bought house both will contribute to the economy in their own way.
I guess many have given up and many are just trying to hang on to their jobs ..but don't give up ..just think about the peace of mind that a GC gives ..no more headaches from lawyers, USCIS, RFE's, employers, DL etc ..at the very least comment on this idea but before you dismiss it come up with a better idea (it is very stupid of people who just criticize but don't come up with alternative ideas).
----------------
what if all immigrants and members were to call their local realtors - show interest in buying a house and once the realtor is interested ..tell her / him that you are postponing your home buying decision since the green card has got delayed ..and maybe ask him / her to tell the NAR (national realtor agency) to speak about speeding green cards to legal immigrants who are already here ??
...if people are motivated then maybe we can do media campaign too ..
------
the above idea does not need any money / members can do it from the comfort of their homes ..please comment and either support this or come up with better idea ..Thanks in advance !!!
(if the idea sounds good ..then all members can spread the word in their community - i.e. temples, churches, local potlucks, subdivision, apartment, AMWAY meetings etc etc ..at the very least IV membership will increase)
And for those who already have house, If their green card messed up than you see more foreclosures.
No matter, who are planning to buy house or who already bought house both will contribute to the economy in their own way.
I guess many have given up and many are just trying to hang on to their jobs ..but don't give up ..just think about the peace of mind that a GC gives ..no more headaches from lawyers, USCIS, RFE's, employers, DL etc ..at the very least comment on this idea but before you dismiss it come up with a better idea (it is very stupid of people who just criticize but don't come up with alternative ideas).
----------------
what if all immigrants and members were to call their local realtors - show interest in buying a house and once the realtor is interested ..tell her / him that you are postponing your home buying decision since the green card has got delayed ..and maybe ask him / her to tell the NAR (national realtor agency) to speak about speeding green cards to legal immigrants who are already here ??
...if people are motivated then maybe we can do media campaign too ..
------
the above idea does not need any money / members can do it from the comfort of their homes ..please comment and either support this or come up with better idea ..Thanks in advance !!!
(if the idea sounds good ..then all members can spread the word in their community - i.e. temples, churches, local potlucks, subdivision, apartment, AMWAY meetings etc etc ..at the very least IV membership will increase)
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sankap
07-12 11:14 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27points.html?ex=1184385600&en=d3301beecf778d15&ei=5070
June 27, 2007
Canada�s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 � With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada�s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy�s experience � and that of Canada�s immigration system � offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system�s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta�s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
�The points system is so inflexible,� said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. �We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.�
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada�s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada�s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada�s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. �It is not surprising that Canada�s bathtub is overflowing,� Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
�I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,� said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. �Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.�
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
�The system is very much broken,� Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. �It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,� Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
�If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,� he said, �that�s a problem.�
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
June 27, 2007
Canada�s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 � With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada�s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy�s experience � and that of Canada�s immigration system � offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system�s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta�s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
�The points system is so inflexible,� said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. �We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.�
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada�s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada�s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada�s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. �It is not surprising that Canada�s bathtub is overflowing,� Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
�I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,� said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. �Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.�
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
�The system is very much broken,� Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. �It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,� Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
�If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,� he said, �that�s a problem.�
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
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patfanboston
05-12 09:25 PM
@venetian:
I was not responding to the Sri Lankan issue - please don't read it as such. As I said, my comment was tangential to the discussion thread. I was just writing about my observation of the behavior and attitude of Tamils in general in India.
@jerrome:
Your point about MGR/Jayalalitha/Rajanikanth just proves my point. These people migrated to Tamil Nadu, made it their home and 'assimilated' by learning Tamil and considering themselves Tamil and showing their love for Tamil - they did not become famous in TN by propagating Telugu/Malayalam/Kannada. Now, if only you could provide some examples of the other way around - Tamils who migrated elsewhere and who made the host cultures proud. Can you?
There definitely are Telugu/Malayalam/Kannada natives in TN - but without exception, they have 'Tamilized' themselves to a great extent to live a normal life. Is the converse true?
I was not responding to the Sri Lankan issue - please don't read it as such. As I said, my comment was tangential to the discussion thread. I was just writing about my observation of the behavior and attitude of Tamils in general in India.
@jerrome:
Your point about MGR/Jayalalitha/Rajanikanth just proves my point. These people migrated to Tamil Nadu, made it their home and 'assimilated' by learning Tamil and considering themselves Tamil and showing their love for Tamil - they did not become famous in TN by propagating Telugu/Malayalam/Kannada. Now, if only you could provide some examples of the other way around - Tamils who migrated elsewhere and who made the host cultures proud. Can you?
There definitely are Telugu/Malayalam/Kannada natives in TN - but without exception, they have 'Tamilized' themselves to a great extent to live a normal life. Is the converse true?
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Ramba
12-14 12:19 AM
One cannot challange the content of the INA. Immigration is a privilage not a right. US citizens/lawmakers decides who they or how many they want to allow per year through INA. One can not challange this. For example, before 1960, US allowed only europians not asians. Though, US immigration has a history of 200 years, Indians were not allowed before 1960 in EB catagories. One could not challange then. Tommorow if they amend the INA, by saying no asians allowed in EB catagories, one cannot challange that.
One can challage only if any branch of government violates the law. One can not challange why the law do not have some other provision or why it has only 7%?. It was determiend by congress and signed by president. For example, in H1B, they have special quota for Singapore/Australian nationals. One can not question that. Now, Newzland citizes can not ask/sue, why australians and why not newzlanders in special quota? The same situation in GC system.
There is no ethics/rights in immigration. For example, a janitor/unskilled worker can become citizen after 3 years of LPR(GC) status if his/her spouse is a US citizen and he/she got the GC thro US spouse FB sponsership. At the same time, if a nobel prize winner got GC through EB1 catagory, he/she has to wait 5 years to become citizen after LPR status. This is what the law says. So, this nobel prize winner can not sue the government why the INA is not favorable to him.
One can challage only if any branch of government violates the law. One can not challange why the law do not have some other provision or why it has only 7%?. It was determiend by congress and signed by president. For example, in H1B, they have special quota for Singapore/Australian nationals. One can not question that. Now, Newzland citizes can not ask/sue, why australians and why not newzlanders in special quota? The same situation in GC system.
There is no ethics/rights in immigration. For example, a janitor/unskilled worker can become citizen after 3 years of LPR(GC) status if his/her spouse is a US citizen and he/she got the GC thro US spouse FB sponsership. At the same time, if a nobel prize winner got GC through EB1 catagory, he/she has to wait 5 years to become citizen after LPR status. This is what the law says. So, this nobel prize winner can not sue the government why the INA is not favorable to him.
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BharatPremi
07-13 02:04 AM
And Do you (canadian wanna be) have any clue that to get respected salary and position you will be forced by illiterate Canadians to have "Professional Engineering Certificates"... It will suck blood out of your body for 5 years... So just do not read "Greener Side" of Canadian Immigration... I know it may not be applicable to all but more or less most of will have to face the same music in their careers. My all Canadian friends and relatives want to be Americans.. Only some of them practically could proceed for that.. After some stage of life it becomes hard to move families.. That is the reason they are facing now to take decision and simultaneously do not want to live in Canada anymore.. If you have 101 fever it will take 1 month to have Doctor's appointment... GST.. Higher taxes.. statistically there are chances "Most of members of this forum - Canadian Wanna Be" will have less promotions and/or increments in salary eventhough they will find themselves most skilled wherever they will work. Top posts would be the dream for most of you guys unless you start your own business.. if you understand what I am trying to tell... In USA it is not that way.... Having said this I can not say that everybody will experience the same what I am trying to portray but most fo them will.
same_old_guy
10-23 05:43 PM
Buddy, if you want to do substitution - just do it. Talk to some lawyer and get right info. You dont have to gloat around here.
I cant speak for others but discussing on labor sub is like itching the wound. Most people here really hate the whole concept of labor sub. Lets not get in to other people's nerves at time like this.
Good luck to you. No hard feeling.
PS : There are lots of other forums you can get tons of information. for instance, murthy or immigrationportal.
I cant speak for others but discussing on labor sub is like itching the wound. Most people here really hate the whole concept of labor sub. Lets not get in to other people's nerves at time like this.
Good luck to you. No hard feeling.
PS : There are lots of other forums you can get tons of information. for instance, murthy or immigrationportal.
unseenguy
06-12 09:05 AM
Unseenguy,
I am fairly confident, touch wood, that I would not be dependent on India for a handout. I have paid my debts to the Indian society by investing in India. I did not graduate out of an IIT but I did graduate out of the 2nd best engineering college (atleast then) in Rajasthan, India. I am sure you guys would have guessed it by now. Just for the record, I had to pay full expensive tuition and my education was not subsidized. By my responsible style of life, I believe that I have become a self made man and so would hopefully be of material help but not a public burden to India. be rest assured !!!
2nd best engineering college in Rajasthan? There were 25 states in India , now including IITs, & NITs and BITS, that would make it, atleast 30 colleges in India which are better than yours. And here we are just talking of engineering colleges. Not even mentioned about medical or others. So yours would be like probably 50th best college in India. That is certainly not the best and brightest. I am from top 10 engineering colleges of India at the time.
My brother is a gold medalist in CS from India's top NIT and has done MS here from top 10 universities. My wife has also done MS from here (top 20 school) with a good GPA.
So give up ur GC now for recapture and go back! The better and brighter are waiting for it behind you.
What do you mean by not being a public burden? You will still eat up a job , that can be retained for India's best and brightest, in case you do return due to economy or healthcare factors here.
I am fairly confident, touch wood, that I would not be dependent on India for a handout. I have paid my debts to the Indian society by investing in India. I did not graduate out of an IIT but I did graduate out of the 2nd best engineering college (atleast then) in Rajasthan, India. I am sure you guys would have guessed it by now. Just for the record, I had to pay full expensive tuition and my education was not subsidized. By my responsible style of life, I believe that I have become a self made man and so would hopefully be of material help but not a public burden to India. be rest assured !!!
2nd best engineering college in Rajasthan? There were 25 states in India , now including IITs, & NITs and BITS, that would make it, atleast 30 colleges in India which are better than yours. And here we are just talking of engineering colleges. Not even mentioned about medical or others. So yours would be like probably 50th best college in India. That is certainly not the best and brightest. I am from top 10 engineering colleges of India at the time.
My brother is a gold medalist in CS from India's top NIT and has done MS here from top 10 universities. My wife has also done MS from here (top 20 school) with a good GPA.
So give up ur GC now for recapture and go back! The better and brighter are waiting for it behind you.
What do you mean by not being a public burden? You will still eat up a job , that can be retained for India's best and brightest, in case you do return due to economy or healthcare factors here.
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